RSI pain back of hand - ouch! solutions?

[steelsky]

Howdi all,

Im sure most of you that have been doing 3D stuffs for a few years now will have experienced the crappy pain in the back of hand after long periods. Well I have, and of late ive noticed it can hurt after shorter periods of time. Ive done a bit of reading on it and i think its about time i looked to get a bit more support before i damage something lol

I have the following keyboard and mouse (just a google images link)

https://ssl11.chi.us.securedata.net/miccomputers.com/merchantmanager/v4/images/microsoft-keyboard.jpg

The wrist rest that comes with the keyboard is ok but not very high and doesnt support aswell as it looks - looking at others on amazon they are a bit higher which should help. Im also considering one of the mouse mats with the buit in rest.

There are quite a few variations on amazon - just wondered if any of you had any that you like or dislike etc?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_ss_w_h_?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=wrist+rest

[Tricky_Rich]

Get a Wacom tablet and pen (preferably Intuos4, if you can afford it,) not only will the pain be lessened but you will find that you can achieve much greater control over your sculpting.

[steelsky]

Sorry i should have made it clearer - Ive got a cheap wacom I use for sculpting which is fine for now, but im usually modelling and texturing in max so im mainly using a mouse. This is more of a general computer usage question that sculpting specific.

[steelsky]

If you dont know anything on the subject your lucky - posture can be a problem, but im my case (as i understand it looking at how i work) its casued by dorsiflexion, ie

http://ergocanada.com/ergo/rests/wrist_extension_while_keyboarding_358x193.jpg

http://ergocanada.com/ergo/rests/no_wrist_extension_while_keyboarding_358x193.jpg

the harsher the angle the worse it can be - i didnt think much of it before but my hands are large and my palm rests on the mat creating such an angle :(

A lot of people suffer from it even experienced computer users - i could be wrong but i think wayne even mentioned something about having it in the past.

[Wayne]

A lot of people suffer from it even experienced computer users - i could be wrong but i think wayne even mentioned something about having it in the past.


I had trouble with carpal tunnel syndrome in both hands for nearly 2 years. That though was the reuslt of me working 18 hours a day learning 3d with only a mouse without breaks. I learned to model to some degree using my left hand until it got treated. Added to that I had a habit of doing something that was probably the worst thing in the world for your hands, modeling with my wrist resting on the edge of a metal desk...for hours on end.....

Until the start of this year I still wore a medical wrist brace when I modelled or typed. 'Not a lot of people know that' as micheal caine never said lol.

Breaks are there for a reason.... as is good posture. I learned the hard way what happens when you ignore the warning signs and dont take rests or look after your posture. Once CTS strikes you have no choice but to stop all computer use using that hand or it ends up like mine did where you cannot feel your own fingers... and when feeling does come back you end up feeling like your sculpting using someone elses hands. Otherwise you end up facing a nasty operation that no artist would want by choice.

Even if you ignore every other thing I've ever bloody said or are going to say...please just remember that you have to look after what are the tools of your trade. You mind and your eyes and hands.

Wayne...

[steelsky]

yeah ive read such storys wayne and it frightens the crap out of me hence the lookin into this stuff more... do you have any wrist rests ets to support you?

[tonytrout]

My dauhter does architecture and a lot of students there use an articulated rest for the forearm. She has since passed her spare one to me and Its great. Looks a bit gweeky but if you have wrist pain then I think you would find it fantastic as it allows you to have the wrist down rather than up and its much freer motion than wrist pads. My best toy after the high back tilting chair :) Ill check the name and post the link here. Really only use it for the mouse though and when Im in Mudbox 95% unsupported on the tablet

Edit: heres the link

http://forums.polyloop.net/misc-discussions-what-you-want/15574-ergo-rest-biomechanical-mania-rsi.html

[RobinB]

A friend of mine from work suffered terribly with RSI. He nearly had to take three months off work and stay away from computers altogether and went through loads of different excercises and keyboards (he's a programmer so mouse use isn't the main problem there).

In the end the best advice he's got is to take your hourly breaks (it's supposed to be five or ten minutes away from the computer every hour). He has a piece of software that actually locks him out of the computer so he can't ignore it.

He also tried an orthopaedic keyboard. Gold Touch split keyboards like this one-

https://www.getbacksupplies.co.uk/Workstation_Accessories/Keyboards_And_Mice/Gold_Touch_Keyboard_1520.html

But that didn't help with the specific problem he had (and they're pretty expensive if they don't help). He had better success with a laptop style keyboard. The lower travel on the keys means he doesn't press as hard and the overall lower profile means it doesn't angle the wrists up.

Personally I get wrist strain in my left hand when doing something like playing PC games for any length of time so I don't (don't like them anyway). Keyboard shortcuts don't cause a problem but I set them up to prevent over reaching from say Ctrl to H.

One thing I do to avoid strain in the mouse hand is to have the mouse pushed way back on the desk so my elbow rests on the desk and my forearm is flat. That prevents the wrist angling up and seems to work well for me.

I also use a proper right handed mouse. The Intellimouse Explorer 3.0 is best for me. Nice light touch on the buttons and mouse wheel button and a good flat profile so you don't clutch it too hard. I have the ambidextrous one too but the hand doesn't sit at as relaxed an angle on that one.

I do find it a bit of a strain when holding the stylus for any length of time (contrary to many wacom users who find it less of a strain than using a mouse). So I just make sure to take a break from it and switch over to the mouse when I'm not actually sculpting.

RSI and Carpel Tunnel syndrome can be very damaging so be very careful.

[tonytrout]

I use a mouse a lot for modelling. I butchered mine and took out the little plastic detent on the scrollwheel so it doesnt jar but scrolls smoothly. I find that helps my index fingertip not to get sore and hand tense.

[steelsky]

Thanks everyone... ill have a closer look at those linkys - Tony those arm rests are amazing lol... must be cool to work with lol... bionic man!...

Robin whats that lock out software?... would be an interesting test.. i do keep loosing track of time.

Rod, you do make intersting points - Ive adjust myself a little toward your posture to see if it helps. Ive got a good highback chair, the only issue is my monitors are a little high now, but ill give it a whirl.

Again thanks for your replys they all make interesting reading and have made me think.

[RobinB]

I think the software my friend uses is RSIGuard.

http://www.rsiguard.com/

It gives you the option of postponing it by two minutes if you're busy, but once it kicks in you can't do anything (not sure even Ctrl Alt Del works).

I'm sure there are free equivalents if you look around. It doesn't need to do much. But if you can dismiss it, it won't work.

[steelsky]

Ta very much mate - ill go and have a look at this... ill probably look for a freebi alternative and try to stick with it... looks cool tho!!

[tonytrout]

Laugh all you will at my bionic extensions, he he, but they really work. Rod mentions that he supports his arm on the chair arm. the ergo rest extends that to give free fluid movement to your elbow and frees up your shoulder from getting tired and tensed in a long session while supporting it. I only use the one now for the mouse. Before I got this I made up a small sloping board for mouse with a curved foam extension on the bottom edge covered with slippery plastic that extended over the desk edge so that the desk edge didnt dig into my wrist. I made it from scraps and cost nothing. It set the right angle for my wrist as the desk was too flat an angle. The big comfy chair is my favourite. I find the tilting important for preventing posture lock. Mine has arrmrests full back support gas height adjust, swivles, rolls etc and reclines back which allows me to stretch and change angle periodically. so comfy that my wife finds me at 5 in the morning sometimes sound asleep.

Im hoping sometime in the next ten years for a full zero G suspension rig and hydroponic feeding tube upgrade. Mind you it would be nice to be able to model with eyes closed sometimes too.

[steelsky]

Lol im not laughing at thebionic stuff mate - what ever works for you is all that matters... its all clever stuff!!.. Might do a few DIY experiments like u have in the past ;).. see if something works hehe.

Speaking of modelling with yer eyes shut lol... anyone suffer from dry eyes? the last few weeks thats been bugging me too, but not just infront of the screen etc.

Rod, i dont think its the mouse movements so much that cause me the issue.. i feel things more when clicking than moving the mouse... Im gonna try changing my posture a bit - so its more like yours and see how i go.

[ghib]

Well since I'm a longstanding hardcore computer user and have never had the slightest hint of trouble with any of these things, maybe you should look at what my setup has always been.
I have a high desk, and a big comfy swivel chair with arm rests, so when I'm working my wrist is the highest point of my arm and both my elbow and wrist are firmly fixed to the chair and edge of the desk. The only movement required it finger stretching to move the mouse around.
Same thing for the keyboard, and when I use the tablet I have it on my knees.
This also means my head is looking straight head rather than being angled down ,and also I'm comfortably sat back in my chair at all times, not hunched up.
I don't get neck pain, back pain, eye strain or any of those things either.

You'll end up with claws instead of hands & open sores on your elbows doing that.
Sitting like that is also a sure-fire way of developing smugness

[tonytrout]

Ooops this has taken a sudden left turn children cover your eyes

[ghib]

Don't worry, Rodd is far too mature to bite the bait.
yes I'm trolling but I'll stop :)

[Wayne]

Lets get this thread back on track now please..... All I ask is that people treat each other with respect...you dont even have to like each other....just a certain amount of respect.

Thus end-eth the sermon for today. :)


Wayne...