Contest to kick off new forum?

[Bryan Silva]

Hey Wayne, i was thinking to have a contest could be a great way of kicking off things around here. Maybe you could even get the autodesk guys to sponsor it with a seat of mudbox 2009 for the winner???

Ideas for contest theme??

[Wayne]

I was playing around with the idea Bryan, The only problem I could see was as this is a mudbox forum people would already own mud to begin with..so it would mean opening a section especailly for users of other apps as a one off thing. Another option would be to use it as a way to help people improve a skill or skills that are a benefit to digital sculpting in mud but are sometimes neglected. (Such as poly modelling, uv mapping, rendering etc etc...)

I'm interested to here everyones views on this.


Wayne...

[Bryan Silva]

Well I for one use mudbox at work. I have no 2009 at home. So if the prize was a license of mudbox 2009 I would participate even though I am already a mudbox user. Perhaps contestants without mudbox could download a trial.

[Wayne]

Yes, thats also a possibility. Although I remember the shit storm that happened when I was runing SubD and we had a mud contest lol.... But yes there are many users who use it at home and do not have it or can afford it at home.


Wayne...

[Hulahuga]

I actually think that it would be better if we had a competition where you could win a screen or something. Just need to find a sponsor. Cause then people would be more triggered. At least that's what I think.

[Bryan Silva]

Maybe a mudbox qualified graphics card or a cintiq. ;D

As far as the contest goes what would you guys like to see as the challenge?

[Hulahuga]

Maybe a mudbox qualified graphics card or a cintiq. ;D

As far as the contest goes what would you guys like to see as the challenge?


I totally agree with you, especially on the graphics card.

Perhaps we could all begin with a supplied basemesh and work from that, only in Mudbox. Textures made in mudbox are also demanded.

Sould we have some kind of theme??

[Wayne]

When the time comes I'll come up with a good theme...although it'll be fun dont expect an easy ride. lol


Wayne...

[Hulahuga]

When the time comes I'll come up with a good theme...although it'll be fun dont expect an easy ride. lol


Wayne...


Hehe, put us to the test :P. Though make sure it's a subject which inspiration finds easily.
Also it might be good to have a theme newer users can participate in as well.

[TOXIC]

Why not at the same time make it slightly more interesting and challenging with the themes. I'd say maybe you should try something that you've not yet modeled and model it. You all have your strong side why not challenge the weaker area it'll make it a little less intimidating.

[Hulahuga]

Why not at the same time make it slightly more interesting and challenging with the themes. I'd say maybe you should try something that you've not yet modeled and model it. You all have your strong side why not challenge the weaker area it'll make it a little less intimidating.


So how will we know all the members' weak sides?

[dessi]

i carnt see us ppl that are new to 3d having much chance realy against you pros.
What are your thought's on having the same theme for all but diffrent stages i.e begginner ,intermediate and advanged or something in that range

karl..

[Hulahuga]

i carnt see us ppl that are new to 3d having much chance realy against you pros.
What are your thought's on having the same theme for all but diffrent stages i.e begginner ,intermediate and advanged or something in that range

karl..


That was a very good idea actually. The mods then have to make a couple of categories for it. But one thing that is certain about that, all contestants have to be honest when picking category.

[dessi]

yes i agree.I dont know wot the time limit is for a speed sculp.i gess just extending the time for the diffrent stages would be enoth .


karl.

[Hulahuga]

Well this might be more than a speed sculpt if all contestants are to texture it also..
But I agree with you, it might work with just extending the time for certain categories. But do you mean that beginners should face pros in this? Cause even if you get more time, a novice can't make a sculpt at the same level as the work of a professional...

[dessi]

no no...lol .What i mean is give more time and with the quality of work not being as good ,be judged at diffrent levels of ability so every member gets a fair chance . i personaly would not try to compeate against the pro sculpters and may put others off trying too.Be more fun for every member that joins to compeat at there own level and something to work for to get to compeate in the next level

yours karl...

[Hulahuga]

Like a handicap in golf then.
It seems like it would work, but perhaps it would be better to separate it completely from each other . So that novices compete only against novices and so on. Or is that what you mean?
Though if we go for the latter idea we would need three or four prizes.

[dessi]

i gess like a handicap yes.
if all stages did same sculpt everyone could look at what they had done and then what the pros did and could lean more that way ,as far as prizes go do we nead then at a lower stahe in sculpting?
but there is alot of ppl on this site 2 so i gess once every one gets there ideas in the mods can get it sorted

yours
karl..

[Hulahuga]

Aight, I actually think we should have almost the same prizes for all categories/stages/levels

[Hulahuga]

Ey mods. Come to any conclusions??

[Wayne]

Ey mods. Come to any conclusions??


Thiswont happen imediately mainly as my daughter is due to be born in a week or two so last thing I want is a lot more things to deal with around that time. So I need to give a bit of space after she's born. It also hinges on if we can get a prize in the current economic climate.

Wayne...

[Bryan Silva]

i carnt see us ppl that are new to 3d having much chance realy against you pros.
What are your thought's on having the same theme for all but diffrent stages i.e begginner ,intermediate and advanged or something in that range

karl..



This is a poor attitude. And an unfortunate one as well. You see you ARE competing with pros, whether you like that or not. Unless you do this purely for fun, you are in a position where you are competing with professionals for positions at a company, or even if in freelance, you are competing for a particular contract. The sooner you can lose that inferiority complex and realize that the only thing that distinguishes a professional from an amateur is a paycheck, the sooner you will BE a professional. Dont let anyone tell you that you cant break into the industry doing this or that. I got my foot in the door as a character artist. Many say that's not common, but that doesn't mean not possible. Start believing in yourself, you can win if you want it bad enough. Maybe not this competition, if your a total newb, but I don't think that that should mean we should dumb down the competition for beginners. No ones dumbing down job descriptions so newbs can get their break. You just gotta step it up and compete.

[Wagner]

Thiswont happen imediately mainly as my daughter is due to be born in a week or two so last thing I want is a lot more things to deal with around that time. So I need to give a bit of space after she's born. It also hinges on if we can get a prize in the current economic climate.

Wayne...


Congrats already! Must be exciting times :). There's no hurry with the competition imho, take your time. It just gives us more time to hone our skills up.

I'm a newbie with mudbox, but I do not mind competing against professional mudbox artists. It's a challenge after all :D
Challenge will be a great learning process and main reason to participate for me.

[spybg]

Ey mods. Come to any conclusions??


Thiswont happen imediately mainly as my daughter is due to be born in a week or two so last thing I want is a lot more things to deal with around that time. So I need to give a bit of space after she's born. It also hinges on if we can get a prize in the current economic climate.

Wayne...



AND DON'T FORGET TO POST A PICTURE OF YOU AND HERE OR WE WILL KILL YOU ;D (just kidding for the killing part I mean xaxa)

[dessi]

You have a valid point there Bryan,if you wont to be a 3d artist to make money.
I enjoy doing 3d art as a hobby not something i wont to do for a living . But next time you wont to try and belittle me pm me dont put it on a public forum.
Thats not the correct thing to do.


karl.

[TOXIC]

You have a valid point there Bryan,if you wont to be a 3d artist to make money.
I enjoy doing 3d art as a hobby not something i wont to do for a living . But next time you wont to try and belittle me pm me dont put it on a public forum.
Thats not the correct thing to do.


karl.




I don't think the post was supposed to belittle you if anything it was supposed to encourage you.

Competions are not about the artist or the experience level but the model and the time and creativity put into the sculp and finished sculp so you all stand a chance when a competions is decided on.

[Bryan Silva]

My apologies Karl if you felt I was trying to belittle you. This was not my intention. My desire was in fact to encourage you. I am not one to sugar coat my words, and I know reading words is not always interpreted as accurately as when listening to them.

[dessi]

My apologies Karl if you felt I was trying to belittle you. This was not my intention. My desire was in fact to encourage you. I am not one to sugar coat my words, and I know reading words is not always interpreted as accurately as when listening to them.



hay no probs bryan ,it was a valid point you made for anyone trying to make a proffesion in the world of 3d ,i understand what you said and its right .
but again only a habby for me at the moment

no hard feelings


yours
karl....

[Hulahuga]

If some are totally newbies they'll never stand a chance against you guys, as you said Bryan. So why not make a class for them? Which in they'll compete against each other. And those who are more experienced, or just with higher goals can have theirs. After all people have gotten to a final stage they all post at the same topic. I honestly think that would be better. Though you guys are the mods, you decide.

[seon]

I think classes may be a good idea, but how do you decide on the class. Would people sign up themselves or would mods decide? Like I said think it's a good idea. But maybe Bryan is right, maybe just keep it all together, it would push others, like myself, to make their work better in order to compete.

Seon

[Hulahuga]

People would decide themselves. All must of course be honest. But one will notice.

[irobert]

I knew the forum was feeling a little empty. Oh there you are! Muahah.

[Bryan Silva]

I don't know why you'd need a prize for winning. That's entirely the wrong attitude. A contest should be about improving your own ability, not beating others or winning some shiny bauble.



Look who is talking about the wrong attitude. LoL thats funny. All jokes aside, I hear what your saying I am just being a realist. Contests with prizes attract competition. A contest by definition is a struggle for superiority or victory between rivals. So as I see it, its you who has the wrong attitude/idea when it comes to contests.

[Wayne]

The way I see it is that contests give peolpe who could otherwise not afford the software or hardware thats needed, so they get a chance to own a legal copy and not either be walled out of the industry regardless of any talent they may have, or be forced to resort to piracey. (I know thats no defense but lets be realistic here...80% of 3d artists who post online have used pirated software at one time or another...of course that doesn't make it right... in case your wondering yes all my apps are legal.)

To me there is no bigger crime in the whole of art than a person with talent being walled out of 3D simply because of lack of funds. Its down to oppotunity for them and the old maxim I always trot out at times like this: 'How badly do you want it, and how much are you really prepared to give up?'.

Wayne...

[Wagner]

I don't know why you'd need a prize for winning. That's entirely the wrong attitude. A contest should be about improving your own ability, not beating others or winning some shiny bauble.



Contests with prizes attract competition. A contest by definition is a struggle for superiority or victory between rivals. So as I see it, its you who has the wrong attitude/idea when it comes to contests.


Exactly, if you don't compete with the highest possible quality, you're out and no candy for you. That's almost like forced self improving if you want the prize.
Of course Rod's idea of mudbox community with world peace and understanding sounds nice, but beating others... now that sounds good! ;)

[tonytrout]

Yep, world peace for sure, but I vote for 1 prize and winner take all, a little competition sharpens the mind and if you dont aim high you fall short.

[Hulahuga]

I got an idea for what type of challenge we should have.
And I thought I could perhaps make a plan for it, but first I need to hear one thing.

What do you guys think about team challenges, where people team up 2 and 2?
It would be a larger challenge, kinda like a mini DW4. It would be great practice for all those who are attending DW. And also for those who aren't.
It would also be great, since you build contacts and you team up with someone, who might not be at the same skill level, though the two can help each other during the progress.

What do you think?

[Wayne]

Intersting idea, but if there was one prize...how would you share that between 2 people.

Wayne...

[Hulahuga]

That's the question :P.
Perhaps two prices, a bit lesser perhaps, but still.
It should work out, the contest is what's important, not the awards. In reality.

[Hulahuga]

I agree with most of what you say Rod. What you say is mostly true, though some kind award would be good for folk. It doesn't have to be a huge prize, it can be something a bit less. Only to spur the contestants. Even though the participants are already driven by themselves. ;).

Still what do you people think of the group/team idea? (sry for saying it again)

[dessi]

sounds a good idea to me

[Wayne]

The true prize is indeed self improvement so Rod makes a lot of sense on that score...and contests do usually bring out the sharks in my experience modding 3d boards. However.... judging may not be based on criteria that are easy to do if you are not a contributing member if we have one. ;)


Wayne...

[irobert]

I think the grand price should be an Audi R8. I saw one yesterday walking to Starbucks, and I thought, that would make a nice prize for the mudhub. Wayne, you think you could hook that up?

[ScudzAlmighty]

that should absolutely be the grand prize.
anything less would be uncivilized.

[irobert]

In all seriousness-ness. The whole judging someones final piece process has always been a bit strange. What if only people in the contest could judge. Do you think everyone would be egotistical enough to pick their own work? I would think that there would still be a good amount of people to pick the best piece, even if it did resort to that.

[TOXIC]

Sorry to sound like a spoil sport but if your talking prizes then it would have to be the mods and admin and the supplier of the prizes that would have to judge the contest.

If you was doing the contest for nothing but self improvement then judge yourselves by all means.

[ScudzAlmighty]

good point Toxic,
actually, the more i think about this the more i feel that prizes probably aren't the way to go, at least not on a regular basis. doing something like a celebrity bust, or a new take on a classic cartoon or whatever is cool and all, but it seems to me that anything truly worthy of a physical prize should probably require a fair bit of time put into it, like maybe a month. now, i don't know about you but with DOM IV around the corner and Comicon right after that, i'm about comp'd out until late summer.
so doing a mini or something, maybe some quick concept things you turn around in a week might be a better idea.

on a side-note, i think Wayne should be banned from anything involving Head sculpts in 20 min or less

[ScudzAlmighty]

going back to the original idea of winning a legit copy of mud, did anybody notice how few entries there were in Zbrush's action hero contest where they required you to have a real copy?

[Wagner]

...
The whole ethos of having a prize is flawed. If you need a prize as a motivation to become better at art, then you do seriously have the wrong attitude.
...


I mostly agree with you. Self improving should indeed be the main reason for participating, but you should realize we're talking about one challenge here. People do practice even if there aren't any challenges to become better at art, all the time, every day.
You make it sound like challenges are the only way how people do improve themselves. And if there's no prize, then they'll never do anything to become a better artist.

It's just one challenge. Not a life style of an artist.

[tonytrout]

I don't think people who can't afford to buy a copy of mudbox are being held back in any way, since if they can take part in the contest then they obviously already are using a pirate version and already have the hardware good enough to run it.


Sure they are, and its not obvious at all. I wouldnt be sculpting at all with mudbox unless the very good people at Autodesk had given me a trial extension to the end of March. My wife is going to buy it for my birthday, how about that. Not all of us earn what you do Rod.

On the contest itself, its all about spurring yourself on to do a better work than before. Little contests set goals for people to learn so they are essentially helpfull, and I expect thats why they are popular.

[Hulahuga]

I think we should have like our own mini Dominance War :). Like a Mudbox war. It would be awesome. Now before DWIV it's good to have some mini comps. Though we should have some larger competitions. (with teams :) )
I think we should have a separate thread for the competition, with a final thread too. People team up by 2 and 2. In the thread the contestants will post their wips and all may comment. So that all will learn from it, plus that the team members may help each other. All contestants should have a little thing by their names if they complete the challenge. The competition should be about works in Mudbox, though base meshes and rigging could be done in Maya, or any other app.
People may chose as they please, either make a full scene or just a character. A long as they get the message they want from it.
The competition should take a while to complete, like a month or something. (perhaps a time limit for the work time would be good...?)
The judging, if any, should be by the forum members. The contestants may not vote on themselves. There should be a first a second and a third. All else are on shared fourth. That way three extra ordinary works may receive some extra attention. Though they main attention will come to all contestants during the wip stage. Forum members choosing the podium winners have been successful before.


Prizes: If you look over at 3dtotal they have competitions which involves prizes. Though they are smaller, but still....

[tonytrout]

I like Rods idea of a theme, so theres plenty of scope for diferent peoples styles. On CG talk they have had things like master and beast, the journey home etc which give a lot of scope.

The teams thing doesnt appeal to me. I expect most people would prefer an individual event anyway. I dont have time to sort out, liaise and agree with some other dude who might have completely different ideas and end up with some committee art Im not really happy with. However include a teams event if you think you can get enough entrys. I think its pretty hard if not impossible to separate entrys out on a beginner intermediate and professional level basis, just best sculpting, best texturing, best overall model, best diarama etc.

There should be a release of sp1 (or sp2) trial sometime soon and maybe competition could cooincide with that.

On whether there should be prizes for art. Of course there should, whats so precious about art. They pay some people millions of $ a week for playing football for goodness sake, how silly is that. Why shouldnt artists have a bit of bling too.

[Hulahuga]

I would actually say that if you had teams, that would be a part of the competition. Cause if your at, say a game studio, then you'll have to cooperate with others. Which is a challenge in itself, which would not only raise your skill level but your ability to interact with others.

I like your idea for trial date, though if it's after DW then it wouldn't be to good though...
Can someone look that up?

[TOXIC]

Arent you forgetting that Wayne has said any competions would not happen for awhile anyway pending the arrival of his daughter.

Why don't you try to come up with some idea's for what type of competion you would like to have?

I know Wayne has some ideas of his own. But at the moment he's got more on his mind sorry if this seems harsh and I would hate to be the big bad mod.

[m,kearney]

why not just set your selves a lil themed challenge .
until Wayne and the admins can get some free time to work this out .
just a little something to get those creative juices flowing.
then when the time comes it will be a properly organized comp.
Wayne and the admins probably already have a few ideas knocking about .


the point is to take one theme and see all the different end results people come up with.
as well as pick up a few tips along the way or maybe share a few of your own.
but most of all to be creative and have fun doing it .

not trying to tell people what to do just a suggestion.
take it easy all and enjoy whats left of the weekend :)

[tonytrout]

Heres a couple of suggestions for some lil themed challenges

Monsters on bicycles :D
Slave of the Empire :o
Food that eats you ;D
Old Father Time :(
Live office furniture ???

[Wayne]

If people here would like I'll create a section for weekly challenges and start it off with one or two subjects.

Wayne...

[Hulahuga]

Pls do, name it challenges or something :P.
Then, we the members, might get some competitions going, since you have a lot on your mind right now.
If we have some smaller challenges now, then all people involved will have more experience administrating them for the large one :).

Edit: Give us a shout when you've made the new section. :P

[Hulahuga]

Good that you've made the section Wayne. :)
I've just made a thread there, called new challenge ideas.
Please feel free to post your ideas for themes, or whatever you think, there.

[Hulahuga]

I GOT A GREAT THEME ;D

Lost love

could be a small project or a large one. The contestant decide for themselves.


This is for that large competition 8)